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Question Title	Posted By	Question Date
drawing the line with lust	john	Thursday, September 27, 2012
Question: hi im struggling with where to draw the line i know that if im looking at parts of a womans body fully clothed or slightly immodest (breasts , legs ) and getting some enjoyment that is a venial sin (because im kinda viewing her as and object) i know if i have impure thoughts of using the woman for my own enjoyment like an object (like wanting sexual intercourse or stimulations or wanting to touch or french kiss is mortally sinful if i consent to wanting to do these things and planning for the action to be done or wanting to enjoy the fantasy by deliberate dwelling when i know its wrong) but what if the woman is slightly dressed immodest i a want to talk to her or look at her not to be rude because she is attractive and slightly dressed immodest and i putting aside any thoughts that may come that are bad ? is it a sin for me to put myself in an occassion if i wanted to talk to a woman that is dressed abit imodestly ? when does looking at a woman become a mortal sin or a venial sin ? regular circumstances and when does supposedly appreciating the beauty become lust ,is it only when i have thoughts or desires to do unlawful things or is it because im taking some enjoyment in how she looks sorry these things are quite jumbled in my minds
Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OMSM(r) Dear John: There was an old priest who was asked this question. He replied that if one looks at a woman once he is appreciating God's beautiful creation. If the man looks twice, he has lusted. That is an overly simplistic answer but is true as far as it goes. If we are walking down the street we may pass by a beautiful women. We think to ourselves, "that woman is very beautiful." This is appreciation for the beautiful gift of God. If we do more than that by, for example, thinking that she has great breasts or bum, we are beginning to focus on her has a sex object and not just a beautiful person; we are lusting. When we go further yet and think, "I would like to be with her sexually (the thought is usually more crude than that), then we are in full dripping lust mode. According to Fr. Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, lust is: An inordinate desire for or enjoyment of sexual pleasure. The desires or acts are inordinate when they do not confirm to the divinely ordained purpose of sexual pleasure, which is to foster the mutual love of husband and wife and, according to the dispositions of providence, to procreate and educate their children. (Etym. Anglo-Saxon lut, pleasure.) Sexual thoughts about anyone other than one's spouse is the sin of lust. The line is crossed when we have sexual thoughts about the woman. We can appreciate how beautiful people are, but we are not to move into sexual thoughts about them, even mild sexual thoughts. By the way, there is great beauty in all woman. It is extremely rare to find a woman who is truly ugly. The most beautiful woman I have met or observed are those who would not qualify for a super-model or a playboy bunny. It is the imperfection in a woman's face, not a face of perfection, that makes her beautiful to me. Wrinkles show a woman's character. It is so sad that woman think they must cover wrinkles, color their hair to eliminate gray or white hair, or think they must "poof-up" their hair. In every single case that I can think of at the moment, on advertisements or with women I have known, their "out on the town poofed up hairdo" makes them look terrible in comparison to their "everyday let the hair down" hairdo of their daily lives. The natural look, not the painted faces and poofed up hairdo and the "sexy" designer clothes, tyhat makes women the most beautiful in my opinion. I speak here as a man, and also as a photographer. Concerning this subject, the women have a great responsibility not to tempt men. If a woman is trying to look "sexy" that means she is trying to instill lust in others. That is sin. St. John Chrysostom said it well 1600 years ago and we need take his teaching to heart. He wrote about modesty: You carry your snare everywhere and spread your nets in all places. You allege that you never invited others to sin. You did not, indeed, by your words, but you have done so by your dress and your deportment and much more effectively than you could by your voice. When you have made another sin in his heart, how can you be innocent? Tell me, whom does this world condemn? Whom do judges in court punish? Those who drink poison or those who prepare it and administer the fatal potion? You have prepared the abominable cup, you have given the death-dealing drink, and you are more criminal than are those who poison the body; you murder not the body but the soul. And it is not to enemies you do this, nor are you urged on by any imaginary necessity, nor provoked by injury, but out of foolish vanity and pride. Men must work at not lusting, but woman must also work at not inspiring lust. A good clue that a woman is improperly dressed is to ask, "Does this outfit make me sexy?" We are to be sexy only to our spouses in the privacy of our homes. "Either we must speak as we dress, or dress as we speak. Why do we profess one thing and display another? The tongue talks of chastity, but the whole body reveals impurity." --St. Jerome "Certain fashions will be introduced that will offend Our Lord very much." -- Our Lady of Fatima, in 1920. Jason Evert talks with young people about modesty: I hope this helps you to discern where the lines are drawn. And I hope this will help woman to respect themselves and keep themselves modest. Your miserable servant, Bro. Ignatius Mary For information on how to receive help see our Help page. We suggest that before contacting us directly for help you try the Seven Steps to Self-Deliverance. These self-help steps will often resolve the problem. Also our Spiritual Warfare Prayer Catalog contains many prayers that may be helpful. If needed you can ask for a Personal Consultation.

Question Title

Posted By

Question Date

drawing the line with lust

john

Thursday, September 27, 2012

Question:

hi

im struggling with where to draw the line

i know that if im looking at parts of a womans body fully clothed or slightly immodest (breasts , legs ) and getting some enjoyment that is a venial sin (because im kinda viewing her as and object)

i know if i have impure thoughts of using the woman for my own enjoyment like an object (like wanting sexual intercourse or stimulations or wanting to touch or french kiss is mortally sinful if i consent to wanting to do these things and planning for the action to be done or wanting to enjoy the fantasy by deliberate dwelling when i know its wrong)

but what if the woman is slightly dressed immodest i a want to talk to her or look at her not to be rude because she is attractive and slightly dressed immodest and i putting aside any thoughts that may come that are bad ?

is it a sin for me to put myself in an occassion if i wanted to talk to a woman that is dressed abit imodestly ?

when does looking at a woman become a mortal sin or a venial sin ? regular circumstances

and when does supposedly appreciating the beauty become lust ,is it only when i have thoughts or desires to do unlawful things or is it because im taking some enjoyment in how she looks

sorry these things are quite jumbled in my minds

Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OMSM(r)

Dear John:

There was an old priest who was asked this question. He replied that if one looks at a woman once he is appreciating God's beautiful creation. If the man looks twice, he has lusted.

That is an overly simplistic answer but is true as far as it goes. If we are walking down the street we may pass by a beautiful women. We think to ourselves, "that woman is very beautiful." This is appreciation for the beautiful gift of God.

If we do more than that by, for example, thinking that she has great breasts or bum, we are beginning to focus on her has a sex object and not just a beautiful person; we are lusting. When we go further yet and think, "I would like to be with her sexually (the thought is usually more crude than that), then we are in full dripping lust mode.

According to Fr. Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, lust is:

An inordinate desire for or enjoyment of sexual pleasure. The desires or acts are inordinate when they do not confirm to the divinely ordained purpose of sexual pleasure, which is to foster the mutual love of husband and wife and, according to the dispositions of providence, to procreate and educate their children. (Etym. Anglo-Saxon lut, pleasure.)

Sexual thoughts about anyone other than one's spouse is the sin of lust.

The line is crossed when we have sexual thoughts about the woman. We can appreciate how beautiful people are, but we are not to move into sexual thoughts about them, even mild sexual thoughts.

By the way, there is great beauty in all woman. It is extremely rare to find a woman who is truly ugly. The most beautiful woman I have met or observed are those who would not qualify for a super-model or a playboy bunny. It is the imperfection in a woman's face, not a face of perfection, that makes her beautiful to me. Wrinkles show a woman's character.

It is so sad that woman think they must cover wrinkles, color their hair to eliminate gray or white hair, or think they must "poof-up" their hair. In every single case that I can think of at the moment, on advertisements or with women I have known, their "out on the town poofed up hairdo" makes them look terrible in comparison to their "everyday let the hair down" hairdo of their daily lives.

The natural look, not the painted faces and poofed up hairdo and the "sexy" designer clothes, tyhat makes women the most beautiful in my opinion. I speak here as a man, and also as a photographer.

Concerning this subject, the women have a great responsibility not to tempt men. If a woman is trying to look "sexy" that means she is trying to instill lust in others. That is sin.

St. John Chrysostom said it well 1600 years ago and we need take his teaching to heart. He wrote about modesty:

You carry your snare everywhere and spread your nets in all places. You allege that you never invited others to sin. You did not, indeed, by your words, but you have done so by your dress and your deportment and much more effectively than you could by your voice.

When you have made another sin in his heart, how can you be innocent?
Tell me, whom does this world condemn? Whom do judges in court punish? Those who drink poison or those who prepare it and administer the fatal potion? You have prepared the abominable cup, you have given the death-dealing drink, and you are more criminal than are those who poison the body; you murder not the body but the soul. And it is not to enemies you do this, nor are you urged on by any imaginary necessity, nor provoked by injury, but out of foolish vanity and pride.

Men must work at not lusting, but woman must also work at not inspiring lust. A good clue that a woman is improperly dressed is to ask, "Does this outfit make me sexy?" We are to be sexy only to our spouses in the privacy of our homes.

"Either we must speak as we dress, or dress as we speak. Why do we profess one thing and display another? The tongue talks of chastity, but the whole body reveals impurity." --St. Jerome

"Certain fashions will be introduced that will offend Our Lord very much." -- Our Lady of Fatima, in 1920.

Jason Evert talks with young people about modesty:

I hope this helps you to discern where the lines are drawn. And I hope this will help woman to respect themselves and keep themselves modest.

Your miserable servant,
Bro. Ignatius Mary

For information on how to receive help see our Help page. We suggest that before contacting us directly for help you try the Seven Steps to Self-Deliverance. These self-help steps will often resolve the problem. Also our Spiritual Warfare Prayer Catalog contains many prayers that may be helpful. If needed you can ask for a Personal Consultation.