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Question Title	Posted By	Question Date
Street "evangelists" and the truth at all costs	Tim	Friday, January 25, 2008
Question: Greetings, my Brother! I live in Brazil, where the rate of rate of growth of Protestantism and other sects is in direct corrolation with the growth rate of violent crime and murder (coincidence?). This evening on the way home from the supermarket I ended up in a 1.5 hr. "discussion" with these two guys who are part of a sect that preaches the "true GOSPEL" and that not only the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon but Protestants are also hellbound. Any reasoning with these people is impossible; if you quote anywhere BUT the 4 Gospels, like Paul, it's all "below Jesus" and thus irrelavent (a sharp contrast to many neo-Marcionite Fundamentalists!), ditto for Old Testament. But the doozie: they claimed that Jesus was NOT GOD while on Earth; ONLY a man (how could the Devil tempt God?) Too easy to refute this and ANYTHING they said in reality but like I said, anything you throw at them they could "refute" and claim, "Jesus didn't say that so it is irrelevant." Yet in the same breath the NT is entirely inspired, except in some parts where Paul gives some direction. I certainly knew how to handle things, because they never could confirm how they could know the 4 Gospels ARE REALLY the true Gospel of Jesus -- and what's more, that the Catholic Church preserved and compiled exclusively all the books of NT. But that doesn't matter because "they know." Why THEY are sure they have the truth and no one else does, "because we have the Bible..." They said, "if your God is God He will convict us and convert us if you pray because we sincerely love God." Of course, if Jesus couldn't convert everyone... but oh yeah, He wasn't God on earth... Arguing is pointless. You're always wrong no matter what by simple ignoring of whatever suits them. I only wasted my breath for the sake of passers-by, lest they fall prey to such demons. I felt the people passing ON MY SIDE. Did I do the right thing to stand up to these people or should I have ignored them?
Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM Dear Tim: Well, if I am invoke St. Paul, we are to avoid unproductive arguments. Such arguments only serve to confuse and disrupt and to destroy one's peace in Christ. With that said, however, we do have the duty to instruct the ignorant and to present the truth. Especially for the benefit of passers-by it may be appropriate to confront these people IF and this is ONLY IF you can keep your cool, be prepared to speak cogently and intelligently and not fall into their rhetorical traps, be able to persuasively present the truth, and know when to quit. If you can do that, then "maybe" it can be beneficial. The more you are calm and intelligent in speaking the truth, the more outrageous the cult members will sound to the passers-by. In such situations we need to remember that it is the passers-by who are really our audience and not the cult members themselves. We also need to remember that it is not our job to convince anyone of anything; that is the job of the Holy Spirit. Our job is to be the messenger of the Gospel, of the Truth, to present the truth, to plant a seed. If we remember our role it is easier to not get caught up in argumentation. In confronting people like this, however, the benefit effect to the passers-by will fade if we stay and argue in circles for too long. You have to be able to know when to bow out of the debate and to do so gracefully. Thus, if you have the temperament to do all this and ONLY IF you strongly feel that the Holy Spirit is leading you to confront these cult members, then by all means do so. But, if your temperament is not suited for this in a way that the above criteria can be met, then I would keep walking. God Bless, Bro. Ignatius Mary Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below: Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum. Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum

Question Title

Posted By

Question Date

Street "evangelists" and the truth at all costs

Tim

Friday, January 25, 2008

Question:

Greetings, my Brother!

I live in Brazil, where the rate of rate of growth of Protestantism and other sects is in direct corrolation with the growth rate of violent crime and murder (coincidence?). This evening on the way home from the supermarket I ended up in a 1.5 hr. "discussion" with these two guys who are part of a sect that preaches the "true GOSPEL" and that not only the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon but Protestants are also hellbound.

Any reasoning with these people is impossible; if you quote anywhere BUT the 4 Gospels, like Paul, it's all "below Jesus" and thus irrelavent (a sharp contrast to many neo-Marcionite Fundamentalists!), ditto for Old Testament. But the doozie: they claimed that Jesus was NOT GOD while on Earth; ONLY a man (how could the Devil tempt God?) Too easy to refute this and ANYTHING they said in reality but like I said, anything you throw at them they could "refute" and claim, "Jesus didn't say that so it is irrelevant." Yet in the same breath the NT is entirely inspired, except in some parts where Paul gives some direction.

I certainly knew how to handle things, because they never could confirm how they could know the 4 Gospels ARE REALLY the true Gospel of Jesus -- and what's more, that the Catholic Church preserved and compiled exclusively all the books of NT. But that doesn't matter because "they know." Why THEY are sure they have the truth and no one else does, "because we have the Bible..."

They said, "if your God is God He will convict us and convert us if you pray because we sincerely love God." Of course, if Jesus couldn't convert everyone... but oh yeah, He wasn't God on earth...

Arguing is pointless. You're always wrong no matter what by simple ignoring of whatever suits them.

I only wasted my breath for the sake of passers-by, lest they fall prey to such demons. I felt the people passing ON MY SIDE. Did I do the right thing to stand up to these people or should I have ignored them?

Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM

Dear Tim:

Well, if I am invoke St. Paul, we are to avoid unproductive arguments. Such arguments only serve to confuse and disrupt and to destroy one's peace in Christ.

With that said, however, we do have the duty to instruct the ignorant and to present the truth. Especially for the benefit of passers-by it may be appropriate to confront these people IF and this is ONLY IF you can keep your cool, be prepared to speak cogently and intelligently and not fall into their rhetorical traps, be able to persuasively present the truth, and know when to quit.

If you can do that, then "maybe" it can be beneficial. The more you are calm and intelligent in speaking the truth, the more outrageous the cult members will sound to the passers-by.

In such situations we need to remember that it is the passers-by who are really our audience and not the cult members themselves. We also need to remember that it is not our job to convince anyone of anything; that is the job of the Holy Spirit. Our job is to be the messenger of the Gospel, of the Truth, to present the truth, to plant a seed. If we remember our role it is easier to not get caught up in argumentation.

In confronting people like this, however, the benefit effect to the passers-by will fade if we stay and argue in circles for too long. You have to be able to know when to bow out of the debate and to do so gracefully.

Thus, if you have the temperament to do all this and ONLY IF you strongly feel that the Holy Spirit is leading you to confront these cult members, then by all means do so. But, if your temperament is not suited for this in a way that the above criteria can be met, then I would keep walking.

God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary

Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below:
Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum.
Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum
Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum
Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum
Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum