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Question Title	Posted By	Question Date
God	Jerry	Thursday, September 27, 2007
Question: Here’s a story that comes to us from ancient eastern Mediterranean culture. See if you can recognize it. High above the clouds sits a bearded man on a throne, draped in flowing raiment. But this is no man. This is the supreme god, with a voice like lightning and thunder, whose unguarded visage to so terrible that it would strike a mortal dead. But there is one who opposes the supreme god and resents his rule. This is a lower being, the creator of horrors that have been consigned to the pit, one who speaks with the voice of serpents. This entity sends its monstrous minions against the supreme god and his celestial home, hoping to drive the supreme god off his throne. Fortunately, the supreme god is not alone. Beside him is his son, born of mortal woman. He demonstrated is divine origin in the crib, has led a miraculous life, and now lives with his father above the clouds. Through his judgment and his might, the son defeats the minions from below. Recognize the father and son? Scroll down. Zeus and Heracles. The lower power is Gaia, Mother Earth. Her minions are snake-legged giants. Heracles defeats them because he knows to lift them off the ground so that Mother Earth cannot regenerate them. Held aloft, they can be killed. With this defeat, Gaia gave up trying to overthrow Zeus, and his reign was secured.
Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM Dear Jerry: Yes, I recognize it. So what is your point? Many well-intentioned intellectuals like to cite ancient practices and ideas that are similar to Jewish and/or Christian practices and ideas but pre-date the Jewish or Christian religions as if to suggest that the Judaeo-Christian tradition is a mere regurgitation of ancient pagan ideas. But this is a logical and intellectual fallacy. Before God revealed himself to the Jews through the prophets of old, and then through Moses, and then later through Christ, and codified in the Bible, the pagan peoples did the best they could to know an unknowable God. The essential knowledge of God is written on the hearts of all human beings, God tells us. Thus, even without the specific revelations of God about Himself that we have in Sacred Scriptures and Sacred Tradition, those people knew there was a God. But, how were they to know the details of a God who has not revealed Himself except through nature? Naturally, as a result, ancient peoples interpreted natural elements as God, such as a Sun God, and Moon God and the like. Other ancient peoples constructed elaborate mythologies in an attempt to understand a God who had not revealed Himself to them specifically. Sometimes, in the construction of these mythologies elements are similar to what was later specifically revealed by God through the Jews and through Christ. This DOES NOT mean that the Jews or the Apostles of Christ borrowed the pagan notions to construct their own religion. What it means is that the ancient peoples happen to stumble on a few right notions once-in-awhile in their attempt to understand God. This is to be expected since the knowledge of God is written on the hearts of all human beings. It is also expected that they would get a lot wrong because they did not have a Revelation from God as we do. No, sir, the notions contained in that ancient mythology that are true to Jewish and Christian revelation found in the Bible and Sacred Tradition are not derived from ancient eastern Mediterranean culture. It is derived from God Himself and merely given oral and literary form through ancient eastern Mediterranean culture. To restate this another way: Those mythologies are similar to the Revelation of God we know as Christians because God is God and He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. God is the same, only our understanding changes as we learn more details about Him. The ancient people had few details and thus made up mythologies to give form and understanding to what they did not understand. In the course of their musings they got some things right in essence. We have a better and more accurate understanding because God has revealed Himself to us in a definitive way. Yet, despite that we still do not have perfect understanding. We will have that when we meet our Creator in the afterlife. God Bless, Bro. Ignatius Mary Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below: Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum. Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum

Question Title

Posted By

Question Date

God

Jerry

Thursday, September 27, 2007

Question:

Here’s a story that comes to us from ancient eastern Mediterranean culture. See if you can recognize it.

High above the clouds sits a bearded man on a throne, draped in flowing raiment. But this is no man. This is the supreme god, with a voice like lightning and thunder, whose unguarded visage to so terrible that it would strike a mortal dead.

But there is one who opposes the supreme god and resents his rule. This is a lower being, the creator of horrors that have been consigned to the pit, one who speaks with the voice of serpents. This entity sends its monstrous minions against the supreme god and his celestial home, hoping to drive the supreme god off his throne.

Fortunately, the supreme god is not alone. Beside him is his son, born of mortal woman. He demonstrated is divine origin in the crib, has led a miraculous life, and now lives with his father above the clouds. Through his judgment and his might, the son defeats the minions from below.

Recognize the father and son? Scroll down.

Zeus and Heracles. The lower power is Gaia, Mother Earth. Her minions are snake-legged giants. Heracles defeats them because he knows to lift them off the ground so that Mother Earth cannot regenerate them. Held aloft, they can be killed. With this defeat, Gaia gave up trying to overthrow Zeus, and his reign was secured.

Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM

Dear Jerry:

Yes, I recognize it. So what is your point?

Many well-intentioned intellectuals like to cite ancient practices and ideas that are similar to Jewish and/or Christian practices and ideas but pre-date the Jewish or Christian religions as if to suggest that the Judaeo-Christian tradition is a mere regurgitation of ancient pagan ideas. But this is a logical and intellectual fallacy.

Before God revealed himself to the Jews through the prophets of old, and then through Moses, and then later through Christ, and codified in the Bible, the pagan peoples did the best they could to know an unknowable God.

The essential knowledge of God is written on the hearts of all human beings, God tells us. Thus, even without the specific revelations of God about Himself that we have in Sacred Scriptures and Sacred Tradition, those people knew there was a God. But, how were they to know the details of a God who has not revealed Himself except through nature?

Naturally, as a result, ancient peoples interpreted natural elements as God, such as a Sun God, and Moon God and the like. Other ancient peoples constructed elaborate mythologies in an attempt to understand a God who had not revealed Himself to them specifically.

Sometimes, in the construction of these mythologies elements are similar to what was later specifically revealed by God through the Jews and through Christ. This DOES NOT mean that the Jews or the Apostles of Christ borrowed the pagan notions to construct their own religion. What it means is that the ancient peoples happen to stumble on a few right notions once-in-awhile in their attempt to understand God. This is to be expected since the knowledge of God is written on the hearts of all human beings. It is also expected that they would get a lot wrong because they did not have a Revelation from God as we do.

No, sir, the notions contained in that ancient mythology that are true to Jewish and Christian revelation found in the Bible and Sacred Tradition are not derived from ancient eastern Mediterranean culture. It is derived from God Himself and merely given oral and literary form through ancient eastern Mediterranean culture.

To restate this another way: Those mythologies are similar to the Revelation of God we know as Christians because God is God and He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. God is the same, only our understanding changes as we learn more details about Him. The ancient people had few details and thus made up mythologies to give form and understanding to what they did not understand. In the course of their musings they got some things right in essence.

We have a better and more accurate understanding because God has revealed Himself to us in a definitive way. Yet, despite that we still do not have perfect understanding. We will have that when we meet our Creator in the afterlife.

God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary

Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below:
Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum.
Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum
Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum
Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum
Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum