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Question Title	Posted By	Question Date
Re: Can Eastern Orthodox Christians receive communion during Mass?	Tim	Tuesday, April 17, 2007
Question: I read this in a previous post, and investigated the canon it cited. I am deeply troubled by it. "According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of communion by Christians of these Churches (canon 844 § 3)." Are these Eastern Churches all-of-a-sudden not schismatic? How can Rome be so cruel to the SSPX (they're "EXCOMMUNICATES"!), but actually allow Communion to these schismatic churches, who deny several truths of the faith (none of which the SSPX denies)? HOW is it not sacrilege to allow Communion to non-Catholics?? Canon law cannot change the FACT that it's a serious sin to give the Holy Eucharist to those who deny the Catholic faith (and yes, if you study their faith, they DO deny several points of our faith). I suppose you could make a technicality about the Greeks "respecting the rules of their church", i.e., the rules which do not allow them to receive Communion at our churches. But all they have to do is change their mind, and voila, sacrilege is legalized. It's hard to believe that their rules are more conservative than ours--what happened to the old Roman Church, which was conversative in all things? Surely you see the problem in all of this? And that Rome is applying a double standard, with regards to the SSPX? I don't think many Catholics know what animosity these Greeks have for us. They loudly protested when JPII visted their Bishops in Greece. And you know, if you read some of the things they write about us, it's not very nice. (For examples, see Alexander Kalomiros' "River of Fire", and "St." Justin Popovich's views on the Papacy you demand so much obedience to.) Did you know that Pope John Paul II prayed with animists (in 1985)? Kissed Qurans (yes, he actually did that in 1999)? Kissed the "Archbishop" of Canturbury's RING (2003)? Prayed with non-Christian Jews, who deny their own SAVIOR, Lord Jesus (1986)? Who gathered heathen, heretical, and schismatic religions, and had them all pray in Assisi TWICE (1986 and 2002)?
Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM Dear Tim: This is nothing but a rant, but I will make a few remarks: You are arguing apples and oranges. There is no comparison between the Eastern Orthodox and the SSPX. The Eastern Orthodox separated from the Catholic Church 1000 years ago. While they remain in technical "material" schism, Eastern Orthodox Christians today are not in "formal" schism and do not claim to be part of the Catholic Church. They are now a fully separate Church and exist on their own. Protestants are similar. The original Protestants committed formal schism and heresy. While the Protestant faith groups are in "material heresy" they are not "formal" heretics. They are fully separated from the Catholic Church now and exist on their own. SSPX, on the other hand, does not exist on its own but claims to be Catholic. While making this claim they refuse the authority of the Pope and are in open rebellion against the Catholic Church. That makes the SSPX schismatic. Should the SSPX completely separate themselves someday from the Catholic Church, and go their own way, like the Orthodox, Anglicans, Old Catholics, and Protestants did, then they too can "enjoy" being only a "material" schismatic in future generations. Canon 844 recognizes that the ancient Eastern Church exists as a valid Church with valid sacraments. As such, their faithful can, when the need arises, receive three Sacraments from the Catholics: penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick. This is not to be "offered" to the Eastern Orthodox person, but if they initiate a desire and need, are properly disposed, and approach a Catholic priest, then they may be given these three Sacraments. Other Churches "in the same condition" as the Eastern Orthodox. To my knowledge the Church has not ruled that the SSPX is "in the same condition." The SSPX is still claiming Catholicity and still rebelling against the Catholic hierarchy. That is hardly the "same condition" as the Eastern Orthodox. For the most part, sir, your post is a rant and a rather ignorant one typical of a person with rebellious spirit. One of these days the SSPX sympathizers will grow up from their perpetual 13-year old maturity and realize that the Church does not revolve around them and their opinions. We need to pray that these people will be healed of their liberalism (yes, SSPX-types are liberals) and return to the True Church. The one-liner definition of a religious liberal is a person who thinks their opinions and interpretations outrank the official Church (vested in whoever the current Pope may be at the time, and the Magisterium in union with him). God has given the Pope and the Magisterium the authority to make these decisions. Those who rebel against that are rebelling against the Holy Spirit. Those who disparage the Vatican II Council, disparage the Holy Spirit. These people need to cease their scrupulosity (a religious form of the personality disorder known as compulsive/obsession disorder), cease their arrogance and pride, and re-discover the faith that they have lost. I feel sorry for these people, but I pray for them to be healed. God Bless, Bro. Ignatius Mary P.S. Three quotes that are critical to remember when dealing with this issue: "The more we see failure in obedience, the stronger should be our suspicion of temptation." -- St. Teresa of Avila "Lord, those are your best servants who wish to shape their life on Your answers rather than to shape your answers on their wishes." --St. Augustine "The Church has spoken, the debate is ended." -St. Augustine Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below: Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum. Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum

Question Title

Posted By

Question Date

Re: Can Eastern Orthodox Christians receive communion during Mass?

Tim

Tuesday, April 17, 2007

Question:

I read this in a previous post, and investigated the canon it cited. I am deeply troubled by it.

"According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of communion by Christians of these Churches (canon 844 § 3)."

Are these Eastern Churches all-of-a-sudden not schismatic? How can Rome be so cruel to the SSPX (they're "EXCOMMUNICATES"!), but actually allow Communion to these schismatic churches, who deny several truths of the faith (none of which the SSPX denies)? HOW is it not sacrilege to allow Communion to non-Catholics?? Canon law cannot change the FACT that it's a serious sin to give the Holy Eucharist to those who deny the Catholic faith (and yes, if you study their faith, they DO deny several points of our faith).

I suppose you could make a technicality about the Greeks "respecting the rules of their church", i.e., the rules which do not allow them to receive Communion at our churches. But all they have to do is change their mind, and voila, sacrilege is legalized. It's hard to believe that their rules are more conservative than ours--what happened to the old Roman Church, which was conversative in all things?

Surely you see the problem in all of this? And that Rome is applying a double standard, with regards to the SSPX? I don't think many Catholics know what animosity these Greeks have for us. They loudly protested when JPII visted their Bishops in Greece. And you know, if you read some of the things they write about us, it's not very nice. (For examples, see Alexander Kalomiros' "River of Fire", and "St." Justin Popovich's views on the Papacy you demand so much obedience to.)

Did you know that Pope John Paul II prayed with animists (in 1985)? Kissed Qurans (yes, he actually did that in 1999)? Kissed the "Archbishop" of Canturbury's RING (2003)? Prayed with non-Christian Jews, who deny their own SAVIOR, Lord Jesus (1986)? Who gathered heathen, heretical, and schismatic religions, and had them all pray in Assisi TWICE (1986 and 2002)?

Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM

Dear Tim:

This is nothing but a rant, but I will make a few remarks:

You are arguing apples and oranges. There is no comparison between the Eastern Orthodox and the SSPX. The Eastern Orthodox separated from the Catholic Church 1000 years ago. While they remain in technical "material" schism, Eastern Orthodox Christians today are not in "formal" schism and do not claim to be part of the Catholic Church. They are now a fully separate Church and exist on their own.

Protestants are similar. The original Protestants committed formal schism and heresy. While the Protestant faith groups are in "material heresy" they are not "formal" heretics. They are fully separated from the Catholic Church now and exist on their own.

SSPX, on the other hand, does not exist on its own but claims to be Catholic. While making this claim they refuse the authority of the Pope and are in open rebellion against the Catholic Church. That makes the SSPX schismatic. Should the SSPX completely separate themselves someday from the Catholic Church, and go their own way, like the Orthodox, Anglicans, Old Catholics, and Protestants did, then they too can "enjoy" being only a "material" schismatic in future generations.

Canon 844 recognizes that the ancient Eastern Church exists as a valid Church with valid sacraments. As such, their faithful can, when the need arises, receive three Sacraments from the Catholics: penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick. This is not to be "offered" to the Eastern Orthodox person, but if they initiate a desire and need, are properly disposed, and approach a Catholic priest, then they may be given these three Sacraments. Other Churches "in the same condition" as the Eastern Orthodox.

To my knowledge the Church has not ruled that the SSPX is "in the same condition." The SSPX is still claiming Catholicity and still rebelling against the Catholic hierarchy. That is hardly the "same condition" as the Eastern Orthodox.

For the most part, sir, your post is a rant and a rather ignorant one typical of a person with rebellious spirit. One of these days the SSPX sympathizers will grow up from their perpetual 13-year old maturity and realize that the Church does not revolve around them and their opinions.

We need to pray that these people will be healed of their liberalism (yes, SSPX-types are liberals) and return to the True Church.

The one-liner definition of a religious liberal is a person who thinks their opinions and interpretations outrank the official Church (vested in whoever the current Pope may be at the time, and the Magisterium in union with him).

God has given the Pope and the Magisterium the authority to make these decisions. Those who rebel against that are rebelling against the Holy Spirit.

Those who disparage the Vatican II Council, disparage the Holy Spirit. These people need to cease their scrupulosity (a religious form of the personality disorder known as compulsive/obsession disorder), cease their arrogance and pride, and re-discover the faith that they have lost.

I feel sorry for these people, but I pray for them to be healed.

God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary

P.S. Three quotes that are critical to remember when dealing with this issue:

"The more we see failure in obedience, the stronger should be our suspicion of temptation." -- St. Teresa of Avila

"Lord, those are your best servants who wish to shape their life on Your answers rather than to shape your answers on their wishes." --St. Augustine

"The Church has spoken, the debate is ended." -St. Augustine

Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below:
Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum.
Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum
Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum
Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum
Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum