Ask a Question - or - Return to the Faith and Spirituality Forum Index

Question Title	Posted By	Question Date
not a question but a comment	david	Thursday, March 29, 2007
Question: i see alot of people people on the web and out in public complaining about abuses in the church. alot of them say how great it was pre v2. i was there pre v2 and let me tell you they lament a past that never was. alot of priests would play it fast and loose with the rubrics and latiin hell it was all in latin an d you couldnt see what he was doing anyway. if you looked around youd see a good many people dozeing off till the sanctus bell rang. they also had side altars so youd have 2-3 other masses going on at the same time some would make thier way around and recive the eucharist 3maby 4 times per mass and theyd think themselves holyer for it. priest and nuns were alot more arogant then too dont get me started on the bishops! any way my purpose is not to complaine but to tell these people that abuse is nothing new. if you see an abuse do something about it. talk to the priest,if he wont listen form a commity of authintic liturgy minded folks in your parish 1 person can be ignored but 15 or 20 is something else. most importantly know what your talking about dont go in half cocked and make a fool of yourself. ive heard it said that it used to be that if a person didnt agree with or hated the church theyd just leave it. that was most likely true but today they stick around and get jobs as rcia and ccd teachers for our youth. corrupting as many as they can before geting caught.if you know its happening do something about it. if you know something is wrong yet you do nothing about ityou just as guilty as the criminal who preformed the act. god bless
Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM Dear David: Thank you so much for your comment. It is so true that the pre-Vatican II times was not the utopia some people seem to think. In fact, ALL of the abuses in the Post-Vatican II times were happening 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years before Vatican II. There were complaints about priests working with youth who brought the kids around the altar in violation of liturgical law going back to like 1950. Or the fact that many people hated to go the High Mass. One priest tells the story of a family who came to the High Mass by mistake. When they sat down in the pew they then realized that High Mass was about to start so the got up and left. I think the primary difference between the pre/post Vatican II era was that before Vatican II the abuses were not as noticed by many people, many of them were "behind closed doors", and/or people ignored or kept quiet about it. In the era of the rebellious 60's these same abuses became a public focus and more noisy. We must all remember that the "liberal" priests and bishops of the post Vatican II era were all ordained in PRE-vatican II years. It was the pre-Vatican II generation that brought these abuses we see. Bottomline is that Vatican II is a valid and holy Ecumenical Council convened by the Holy Spirit and the Church. The abuses we see are not a mandate of the Council Fathers and are not caused by the Council. Those who think that Vatican II is evil, invalid, unholy, etc. are not in communion with the Church and need to grow up and humble themselves. Those extreme ones who think that the Pope is not the legitimate pope are just plain insane. With that said, those who have caused and exploited confusion after Vatican II in order to assert their liberal agenda need to invest in asbestos suits for the afterlife methinks. Thomas Wolfe said, "You can't go home again." The "good 'ol days" are never as good as we remember them. Besides the most extreme and loud ultra-traditionalists who think pre-Vatican II was so great tend to be people who were not even born during pre-Vatican II times, or were in diapers. Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below: Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum. Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum

Question Title

Posted By

Question Date

not a question but a comment

david

Thursday, March 29, 2007

Question:

i see alot of people people on the web and out in public complaining about abuses in the church. alot of them say how great it was pre v2. i was there pre v2 and let me tell you they lament a past that never was. alot of priests would play it fast and loose with the rubrics and latiin hell it was all in latin an d you couldnt see what he was doing anyway.

if you looked around youd see a good many people dozeing off till the sanctus bell rang. they also had side altars so youd have 2-3 other masses going on at the same time some would make thier way around and recive the eucharist 3maby 4 times per mass and theyd think themselves holyer for it.

priest and nuns were alot more arogant then too dont get me started on the bishops! any way my purpose is not to complaine but to tell these people that abuse is nothing new. if you see an abuse do something about it. talk to the priest,if he wont listen form a commity of authintic liturgy minded folks in your parish 1 person can be ignored but 15 or 20 is something else. most importantly know what your talking about dont go in half cocked and make a fool of yourself.

ive heard it said that it used to be that if a person didnt agree with or hated the church theyd just leave it. that was most likely true but today they stick around and get jobs as rcia and ccd teachers for our youth. corrupting as many as they can before geting caught.if you know its happening do something about it. if you know something is wrong yet you do nothing about ityou just as guilty as the criminal who preformed the act.

god bless

Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM

Dear David:

Thank you so much for your comment. It is so true that the pre-Vatican II times was not the utopia some people seem to think.

In fact, ALL of the abuses in the Post-Vatican II times were happening 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years before Vatican II.

There were complaints about priests working with youth who brought the kids around the altar in violation of liturgical law going back to like 1950. Or the fact that many people hated to go the High Mass. One priest tells the story of a family who came to the High Mass by mistake. When they sat down in the pew they then realized that High Mass was about to start so the got up and left.

I think the primary difference between the pre/post Vatican II era was that before Vatican II the abuses were not as noticed by many people, many of them were "behind closed doors", and/or people ignored or kept quiet about it. In the era of the rebellious 60's these same abuses became a public focus and more noisy.

We must all remember that the "liberal" priests and bishops of the post Vatican II era were all ordained in PRE-vatican II years. It was the pre-Vatican II generation that brought these abuses we see.

Bottomline is that Vatican II is a valid and holy Ecumenical Council convened by the Holy Spirit and the Church. The abuses we see are not a mandate of the Council Fathers and are not caused by the Council.

Those who think that Vatican II is evil, invalid, unholy, etc. are not in communion with the Church and need to grow up and humble themselves. Those extreme ones who think that the Pope is not the legitimate pope are just plain insane.

With that said, those who have caused and exploited confusion after Vatican II in order to assert their liberal agenda need to invest in asbestos suits for the afterlife methinks.

Thomas Wolfe said, "You can't go home again." The "good 'ol days" are never as good as we remember them. Besides the most extreme and loud ultra-traditionalists who think pre-Vatican II was so great tend to be people who were not even born during pre-Vatican II times, or were in diapers.

Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below:
Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum.
Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum
Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum
Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum
Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum