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Question Title	Posted By	Question Date
with-participatrix	Jasmine	Sunday, May 5, 2019
Question: Question #1: What do you think about solving the Co-redemptrix debate by declaring mary the with-participatrix and declaring a new dogma jesus alone is the redeemer? Question #2 At the same time could also declare mary the ultimate-participatrix(most important) and the number one-participatrix, what do you think of these titles? It seems to me since this term came from an apparition that wasn't approved(amsterdam) it probably is from the devil. Question #3 Is this true Amersterdam is not approved? It seems to me that the label and term are bad, not the message or body of information under the label. Question #4 Why can't we have a different term or label? Also, I know the Polish Pope used the term in a speech one time but since he lived in Poland his whole life How could he possibly know that co has a couple of meaning and mostly is used to refer as equal? I bet he just relied on some translator who for all we know lived in Poland their whole Life. Question #5 Do you know if John paul 2 translator lived in Poland his whole life? Question #6: Also, amsterdam is in holland that speaks dutch. Shouldn't the dutch and Polish people let the americans and english decide what english words mean, and what english words should be used to describe something were trying to say? Also I don't really have anything against calling mary equal redeemer even though I don't think any of the promoters are saying she is equal redeemer, but I would think one would have to have a direct line to god to see if that's what he wants, and if he isn't worried of all the confusion it would cause? I would have to know if Jesus dying on the cross was the only way he could redeem the world, and was mary the only woman who could of did it with, and is he going to send some magic pixie dust flying around the world to hit everyone in the head to magically make everyone understand(which is what the promoters of co-redemptrix claim is going to happen when pope declares mary co-redemptrix). If God did want that it seems to me the pope would just declare Mary equal-redeemer, I don't know why the pope would use the term co-redemptrix since it sometimes means with? Question #7 What do you think of the term Participatrix? Isn't that better than Redeemer, especially since the promoters are all saying they are not trying to make Mary Equal? Everyone could offer their sufferings up with Jesus on the cross and all could be participatrixes or just do what the Dimond Brothers say, Just declare mary isn't the Co-redemptrix? Probably be best to not do anything and tell everyone Mary is not the Co-redemptrix, because if you did declare Mary the With-redemptrix I bet most news outlets and backers of the Co-redemptrix label will tell everyone you just declared mary co-redemptrix and tell everyone with-participatrix means the same thing as Co-redemptrix. Got any thoughts?
Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OMSM(r), LTh, DD Dear Jasmine: I apologize for the long delay. Titles of our Blessed Mother are determined by the Magisterium after careful theological consideration and prayer. We should not be speculating, that is second-guessing what the Magisterium might do. Saint Pope John Paul knew fully what "co-" means. As for his translator, I use to know one of this translators who was Polish and spoke English fluently. The "co-" prefix does not imply equality any more than co-pilot means that he is equal with the pilot. In English the prefix "co-" can mean "together, but subordinate in an activity." While their are other definitions, this one is the one that would apply to Mary. We must go with the definition that applies. That other possible definitions are irrelevant. The other terms you suggest I do not think are feasible. There is a list of articles on this at EWTN. By Amsterdam, I presume you mean Ida Peederman who began having visions in 1945 of our Blessed Mother, under the title of Our Lady of All Nations. Ida's visions were originally not approved by the local bishop, but in 2002 was approved. This approval is by the local bishop. I am not aware that any petition has gone forward to the Vatican. Since it is approved by the bishop, it is okay for the faithful to develop devotions to Our Lady of All Nations. While the declaration of the final Marian dogma of Mary as "The Lady of All Nations: Coredemptrix, Mediatrix, and Advocate," it is not up to a private revelation to make this determination. The Magisterium is the only authority that can make this declaration. We will have to wait and see. By the way, ignore anything said by the Dimond Brothers. They, and their community, are in schism and thus are not in communion with the Catholic Church. Let the Magisterium work this out. The Magisterium and the theologians are the ones who have the competency to understand and determine the theological issues involved and find the appropriate titles. God Bless, Bro. Ignatius Mary Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below: Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum. Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum

Question Title

Posted By

Question Date

with-participatrix

Jasmine

Sunday, May 5, 2019

Question:

Question #1: What do you think about solving the Co-redemptrix debate by declaring mary the with-participatrix and declaring a new dogma jesus alone is the redeemer?

Question #2 At the same time could also declare mary the ultimate-participatrix(most important) and the number one-participatrix, what do you think of these titles?

It seems to me since this term came from an apparition that wasn't approved(amsterdam) it probably is from the devil.

Question #3 Is this true Amersterdam is not approved? It seems to me that the label and term are bad, not the message or body of information under the label.

Question #4 Why can't we have a different term or label? Also, I know the Polish Pope used the term in a speech one time but since he lived in Poland his whole life How could he possibly know that co has a couple of meaning and mostly is used to refer as equal? I bet he just relied on some translator who for all we know lived in Poland their whole Life.

Question #5 Do you know if John paul 2 translator lived in Poland his whole life?

Question #6: Also, amsterdam is in holland that speaks dutch. Shouldn't the dutch and Polish people let the americans and english decide what english words mean, and what english words should be used to describe something were trying to say?

Also I don't really have anything against calling mary equal redeemer even though I don't think any of the promoters are saying she is equal redeemer, but I would think one would have to have a direct line to god to see if that's what he wants, and if he isn't worried of all the confusion it would cause?

I would have to know if Jesus dying on the cross was the only way he could redeem the world, and was mary the only woman who could of did it with, and is he going to send some magic pixie dust flying around the world to hit everyone in the head to magically make everyone understand(which is what the promoters of co-redemptrix claim is going to happen when pope declares mary co-redemptrix).

If God did want that it seems to me the pope would just declare Mary equal-redeemer, I don't know why the pope would use the term co-redemptrix since it sometimes means with?

Question #7 What do you think of the term Participatrix? Isn't that better than Redeemer, especially since the promoters are all saying they are not trying to make Mary Equal?

Everyone could offer their sufferings up with Jesus on the cross and all could be participatrixes or just do what the Dimond Brothers say, Just declare mary isn't the Co-redemptrix? Probably be best to not do anything and tell everyone Mary is not the Co-redemptrix, because if you did declare Mary the With-redemptrix I bet most news outlets and backers of the Co-redemptrix label will tell everyone you just declared mary co-redemptrix and tell everyone with-participatrix means the same thing as Co-redemptrix. Got any thoughts?

Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OMSM(r), LTh, DD

Dear Jasmine:

I apologize for the long delay.

Titles of our Blessed Mother are determined by the Magisterium after careful theological consideration and prayer. We should not be speculating, that is second-guessing what the Magisterium might do.

Saint Pope John Paul knew fully what "co-" means. As for his translator, I use to know one of this translators who was Polish and spoke English fluently.

The "co-" prefix does not imply equality any more than co-pilot means that he is equal with the pilot.

In English the prefix "co-" can mean "together, but subordinate in an activity." While their are other definitions, this one is the one that would apply to Mary. We must go with the definition that applies. That other possible definitions are irrelevant. The other terms you suggest I do not think are feasible.

There is a list of articles on this at EWTN.

By Amsterdam, I presume you mean Ida Peederman who began having visions in 1945 of our Blessed Mother, under the title of Our Lady of All Nations.

Ida's visions were originally not approved by the local bishop, but in 2002 was approved. This approval is by the local bishop. I am not aware that any petition has gone forward to the Vatican. Since it is approved by the bishop, it is okay for the faithful to develop devotions to Our Lady of All Nations.

While the declaration of the final Marian dogma of Mary as "The Lady of All Nations: Coredemptrix, Mediatrix, and Advocate," it is not up to a private revelation to make this determination. The Magisterium is the only authority that can make this declaration. We will have to wait and see.

By the way, ignore anything said by the Dimond Brothers. They, and their community, are in schism and thus are not in communion with the Catholic Church.

Let the Magisterium work this out. The Magisterium and the theologians are the ones who have the competency to understand and determine the theological issues involved and find the appropriate titles.

God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary

Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below:
Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum.
Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum
Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum
Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum
Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum