Question Title	Posted By	Question Date
God the Son coming down to earth	Tim	Thursday, May 11, 2017
Question: I think I know the answer to this question but want to get an experts opinion. If God the Son came down to earth and took the form of man, can it be said that the Second Person of the Holy Trinity was not in heaven during that time? I know that God is omnipresent and is everywhere at all times, past, present and future, but I have trouble coming up with an explanation that since Jesus, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity was on earth in the form of man, how do we reconcile: 1. Mary giving birth to Jesus (God), 2. Jesus praying to God the Father from earth while the Second Person is still in heaven, 3. Jesus saying He came down from heaven but still in heaven, 4. Jesus (God) ascending to heaven but He is there already. Thank you and God Bless you
Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OMSM(r), LTh, DD Dear Tim: Interesting question. I do not think anyone has ask this before. Jesus is fully man and fully God. God is never our of his heaven or anywhere else. He is omnipresent (everywhere). The Body of the Incarnation, however, was in time and place, and now has been glorified and is in heaven. Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Ludwig Ott: "The dogma asserts that there is in Christ a Person, who is the Divine Person of the Logos, and two natures, which belong to the One Divine Person. The human nature is assumed into the unity and dominion of the Divine Person, so that the Divine Person operates in the human nature and through the human nature, as its organ." St. Anselm: "For we affirm that the Divine nature is beyond doubt impassible, and that God cannot at all be brought down from his exaltation, nor toil in anything which he wishes to effect. But we say that the Lord Jesus Christ is very God and very man, one person in two natures, and two natures in one person. When, therefore, we speak of God as enduring any humiliation or infirmity, we do not refer to the majesty of that nature, which cannot suffer; but to the feebleness of the human constitution which he assumed. And so there remains no ground of objection against our faith. For in this way we intend no debasement of the Divine nature, but we teach that one person is both Divine and human. In the incarnation of God there is no lowering of the Deity; but the nature of man we believe to be exalted." 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia: "It is to be remembered that, when the Word took Flesh, there was no change in the Word; all the change was in the Flesh. At the moment of conception, in the womb of the Blessed Mother, through the forcefulness of God's activity, not only was the human soul of Christ created but the Word assumed the man that was conceived. When God created the world, the world was changed, that is, it passed from the state of nonentity to the state of existence; and there was no change in the Logos or Creative Word of God the Father. Nor was there change in that Logos when it began to terminate the human nature. A new relation ensued, to be sure; but this new relation implied in the Logos no new reality, no real change; all new reality, all real change, was in the human nature." To answer your questions: 1. Mary giving birth to Jesus (God) The Word (2nd Person of the Trinity) took flesh, He "assumed the man that was conceived". See the 1917 Encyclopedia quote above. 2. Jesus praying to God the Father from earth while the Second Person is still in heaven, It is the "feebleness of the human constitution which he assumed" that prayed to the Father in the Garden of Gethsemane, for example. It was the "feebleness of the human constitution which he assumed" that petitioned the Father. 3. Jesus saying He came down from heaven but still in heaven. The quote from St. Anselm think answers much of this. The 2nd Person of the Trinity is God, who is everywhere, but the "human constitution which he assumed" was in time and space. 4. Jesus (God) ascending to heaven but He is there already. Same answer as #3. The man, the human constitution which he assumed, was raised from the dead by His own power, therefore defeating death, and thus allowing us to have eternal life. This body was glorified. St. John said of this, (1 John 3:2) "Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." I hope my feeble attempt to describe the what cannot be describe, as it is a mystery, was helpful. God Bless, Bro. Ignatius Mary Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below: Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum. Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum

Dear Tim:

Interesting question. I do not think anyone has ask this before.

Jesus is fully man and fully God. God is never our of his heaven or anywhere else. He is omnipresent (everywhere). The Body of the Incarnation, however, was in time and place, and now has been glorified and is in heaven.

Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Ludwig Ott:

"The dogma asserts that there is in Christ a Person, who is the Divine Person of the Logos, and two natures, which belong to the One Divine Person. The human nature is assumed into the unity and dominion of the Divine Person, so that the Divine Person operates in the human nature and through the human nature, as its organ."

St. Anselm:

"For we affirm that the Divine nature is beyond doubt impassible, and that God cannot at all be brought down from his exaltation, nor toil in anything which he wishes to effect. But we say that the Lord Jesus Christ is very God and very man, one person in two natures, and two natures in one person. When, therefore, we speak of God as enduring any humiliation or infirmity, we do not refer to the majesty of that nature, which cannot suffer; but to the feebleness of the human constitution which he assumed. And so there remains no ground of objection against our faith. For in this way we intend no debasement of the Divine nature, but we teach that one person is both Divine and human. In the incarnation of God there is no lowering of the Deity; but the nature of man we believe to be exalted."

1917 Catholic Encyclopedia:

"It is to be remembered that, when the Word took Flesh, there was no change in the Word; all the change was in the Flesh. At the moment of conception, in the womb of the Blessed Mother, through the forcefulness of God's activity, not only was the human soul of Christ created but the Word assumed the man that was conceived. When God created the world, the world was changed, that is, it passed from the state of nonentity to the state of existence; and there was no change in the Logos or Creative Word of God the Father. Nor was there change in that Logos when it began to terminate the human nature. A new relation ensued, to be sure; but this new relation implied in the Logos no new reality, no real change; all new reality, all real change, was in the human nature."

To answer your questions:

1. Mary giving birth to Jesus (God)

The Word (2nd Person of the Trinity) took flesh, He "assumed the man that was conceived". See the 1917 Encyclopedia quote above.

2. Jesus praying to God the Father from earth while the Second Person is still in heaven,

It is the "feebleness of the human constitution which he assumed" that prayed to the Father in the Garden of Gethsemane, for example. It was the "feebleness of the human constitution which he assumed" that petitioned the Father.

3. Jesus saying He came down from heaven but still in heaven.

The quote from St. Anselm think answers much of this. The 2nd Person of the Trinity is God, who is everywhere, but the "human constitution which he assumed" was in time and space.

4. Jesus (God) ascending to heaven but He is there already. 

Same answer as #3. The man, the human constitution which he assumed, was raised from the dead by His own power, therefore defeating death, and thus allowing us to have eternal life. This body was glorified. St. John said of this, (1 John 3:2) "Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is."

I hope my feeble attempt to describe the what cannot be describe, as it is a mystery, was helpful.

God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary