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Question Title	Posted By	Question Date
Question about Old Testament valid vs not valid	Louis	Wednesday, June 1, 2016
Question: How do we answer people that claim that the Church will take some verses from the Old Testament and apply them as still valid today but then take others and claim they are not valid? For example, speaking about transgender, in Deuteronomy 22:5 it states “A woman shall not wear a man’s garment, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, your God. Then we have Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man comes upon a young woman, a virgin who is not betrothed, seizes her and lies with her, and they are discovered,29 the man who lay with her shall give the young woman’s father fifty silver shekels and she will be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her as long as he lives.” Some claim that this is considered rape yet we don’t make the rapist marry the violated woman. Likewise concerning homosexual acts Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, they have committed an abomination; the two of them shall be put to death; their bloodguilt is upon them. People will claim that the Church still claims part of this scripture as valid but the Church doesn't insist that those guilty of homosexual acts be put to death. Likwise in Deuteronomy 22 they claim that some of it says those guilty of rape shall be put to death yet another part say that the man shall marry the woman. Thank you for your clarification.
Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OMSM(r), LTh, DD Dear Louis: People who claim these things are sorely ignorant of the Bible. In the Old Testament, under Mosaic Covenant, there are some 616 mitzvah (commandments). We are not under the Mosaic Covenant. The Mosaic Law was to lead us to a better way, the way of love. This Jesus fulfilled all the law of Moses, discarded what was obsolete, and transformed it into the Law of love. Jesus brought us to a New Covenant of Himself. Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-18 ~ 17 “Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.[] 18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. [] Jesus came to bring the old law to its natural fulfilment in the new, while discarding what had become obsolete; cf. Jn 4.21. The Ignatius Bible Commentary states: Jesus completely fulfilled the Mosaic Law and the OT prophecies (Matt 1:23; 2:6, 15; 4:15-16; Luke 24:44-47). The Greek word translated fulfil means "to make complete". The New Covenant thus includes and concludes the Old Covenant; it both perfects it and transforms it. While sacrificial laws of the OT expired with the sacrifice of Jesus, the moral laws (Ten Commandments, etc.) was retained and refined (Matt 5:21, 27, 43; 19:17). Deuteronomy 22:5 is referring to a moral issue and thus still in effect. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 is not a moral law, it is a cultural issue, one of the 613 commandments are no longer applies. This is rape. The Law of Christ does not require a rape victim to marry the rapists. Leviticus 20:13 is a moral issue involving homosexual sex, but the penalty of death is not a moral issue; it is a cultural issue and a law that no longer applies. Under the Law of Christ, homosexual sex is a grave evil, but the penalty is the spiritual death of the persons, not the physical death, and the possibility of eternal death in hell. Some like to say that the New Testament does not mention homosexuality, but these people must be taking LSD. It is clear in Romans chapter 1: 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. 29 They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them. Ignore these ignorant people. Jesus is God and God says that the 613 commandments had served its purpose and was therefore completed and transformed in Christ, who brought a New Covenant. God Bless, Bro. Ignatius Mary Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below: Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum. Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum

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Question about Old Testament valid vs not valid

Louis

Wednesday, June 1, 2016

Question:

How do we answer people that claim that the Church will take some verses from the Old Testament and apply them as still valid today but then take others and claim they are not valid?

For example, speaking about transgender, in Deuteronomy 22:5 it states “A woman shall not wear a man’s garment, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, your God.

Then we have Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man comes upon a young woman, a virgin who is not betrothed, seizes her and lies with her, and they are discovered,29 the man who lay with her shall give the young woman’s father fifty silver shekels and she will be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her as long as he lives.” Some claim that this is considered rape yet we don’t make the rapist marry the violated woman.

Likewise concerning homosexual acts Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, they have committed an abomination; the two of them shall be put to death; their bloodguilt is upon them.

People will claim that the Church still claims part of this scripture as valid but the Church doesn't insist that those guilty of homosexual acts be put to death. Likwise in Deuteronomy 22 they claim that some of it says those guilty of rape shall be put to death yet another part say that the man shall marry the woman.

Thank you for your clarification.

Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OMSM(r), LTh, DD

Dear Louis:

People who claim these things are sorely ignorant of the Bible. In the Old Testament, under Mosaic Covenant, there are some 616 mitzvah (commandments). We are not under the Mosaic Covenant. The Mosaic Law was to lead us to a better way, the way of love. This Jesus fulfilled all the law of Moses, discarded what was obsolete, and transformed it into the Law of love. Jesus brought us to a New Covenant of Himself. Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-18 ~

17 “Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.[*] 18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

[*] Jesus came to bring the old law to its natural fulfilment in the new, while discarding what had become obsolete; cf. Jn 4.21.

The Ignatius Bible Commentary states:

Jesus completely fulfilled the Mosaic Law and the OT prophecies (Matt 1:23; 2:6, 15; 4:15-16; Luke 24:44-47). The Greek word translated fulfil means "to make complete". The New Covenant thus includes and concludes the Old Covenant; it both perfects it and transforms it. While sacrificial laws of the OT expired with the sacrifice of Jesus, the moral laws (Ten Commandments, etc.) was retained and refined (Matt 5:21, 27, 43; 19:17).

Deuteronomy 22:5 is referring to a moral issue and thus still in effect.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 is not a moral law, it is a cultural issue, one of the 613 commandments are no longer applies. This is rape. The Law of Christ does not require a rape victim to marry the rapists.

Leviticus 20:13 is a moral issue involving homosexual sex, but the penalty of death is not a moral issue; it is a cultural issue and a law that no longer applies. Under the Law of Christ, homosexual sex is a grave evil, but the penalty is the spiritual death of the persons, not the physical death, and the possibility of eternal death in hell.

Some like to say that the New Testament does not mention homosexuality, but these people must be taking LSD. It is clear in Romans chapter 1:

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. 29 They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them.

Ignore these ignorant people. Jesus is God and God says that the 613 commandments had served its purpose and was therefore completed and transformed in Christ, who brought a New Covenant.

God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary

Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below:
Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum.
Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum
Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum
Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum
Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum