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Question Title	Posted By	Question Date
Re: Charismatic Gifts at Mass	Karl	Thursday, March 29, 2012
Question: Dear Brother: This is not a question but a comment on your response to John on 3-26 re: Charismatic Gifts at Mass, I agree with you 100%. I used to belong to a Charismatic Prayer group many years back. There would at times be Masses in different churches and were called “Charismatic Mass”. One time after communion there were so call “prophecies”, “words of knowledge”, “tongues and interpretations” etc., just at the point that John suggest this could be done. The problem was that it got carried away. People started babbling and then another would get up and interpret that “tongue” as word coming from the Virgin Mary. During those days there was a planned protest before a Planned Parenthood “killing” site. Some “tongues” were interpreted something like “go out and stand before these sites to protest.” Others were the same. Then one young girl got up and claimed a word from the “Virgin Mary” and it was completely contradictory to what was supposedly suggested just a few minutes earlier by our mother and said not go there at all because we must not start confrontations, or something like that; just pray, pray, pray. This sort of thing is what started turning me against some of the prayer meetings where the interpreter of tongues seemed to be “interpreting” his/her own opinion. Sometimes there were contradictory interpretations and others that made no sense at all. At times two or three would get up to interpret that “utterance” and they would all be completely different. Or they would be interpreting at the same time. The thing is that this would go on with several people getting up which, to point out on 1 Cor 14, only two or three at the most should do the interpreting. But no; everybody with that gift wanted to do the interpreting. Imagine in a church where the attendance is over one thousand, and people all over the place are getting up to give us prophecies, words of knowledge, etc. It would be simply chaotic. Oh, and of course 1 Cor 14 also says “…God is not a God of disorder but of peace.” And you are correct; they were TOO Pentecostal with “dancing in the spirit” right after communion, people being “slain in the spirit” all over the place. Sorry but that was not for me any longer.
Question Answered by Dear Karl: Thanks for sharing your experience. People need to understand that tongues is the easiest "gift" to counterfeit. Satanists, shamans, occultist, and many others speak in tongues. Speaking in tongues is also an oifficial symptom of possession mentioned in the Rite of Exorcism. In the article, Charism Gift Building Up the Church, is found these two stories in footnote 69: There are two accounts from priests that illustrate the need for discernment and testing. The first is an experience of Father Anthony, a Carmelite priest who attended a charismatic meeting. At the meeting, one or two people stood up and spoke in "tongues" while another interpreted. Father Anthony then stood up and spoke in tongues. The "interpreter" interpreted Father Anthony’s tongues. At this point father Anthony knew that the interpreter had a false gift. He stood up and informed her that her gift was false, that her interpretation was in error. In fact, Father Anthony has recited the Lord’s Prayer in the Polish language. The experience of another priest is chilling. The Father was at a charismatic meeting where a woman was praising God in Tongues. After the meeting, the Father approached the woman. He asked her if she knew what she was saying when she was speaking in tongues. She replied that she was praising Jesus. The Father informed her that she happened to be speaking his native language and that she was not praising God, but was cursing God. These two true stories should give anyone who speaks in tongues great pause no matter how wonderful they think their tongues speaking has been for them. We can never underestimate the power of selfdelusion, nor the power of the evil one to fool us. If the Charismatic Renewal is to benefit the Church, which it has the potential to do, the Renewal must rid itself of these Pentecostalisms and their errant views that Tongues is a gateway to the other gifts and is otherwise important, and also the mediumistic behavior of other gifts. The Church has instruted the Renewal to not teach that tongues are required. Our current Pope has warned the Renewal about Sensualism. The Renewal parots those teachings in obedience when they write or speak, but in practice, it is another matter. This is a case of paying lip-service to Church authorities, while actually violating the spirit of the instruction through subtely and by the modeling of behavior that flavors Pentecostalism. God Bless, Bro. Ignatius Mary Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below: Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum. Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum

Question Title

Posted By

Question Date

Re: Charismatic Gifts at Mass

Karl

Thursday, March 29, 2012

Question:

Dear Brother: This is not a question but a comment on your response to John on 3-26 re: Charismatic Gifts at Mass, I agree with you 100%.

I used to belong to a Charismatic Prayer group many years back. There would at times be Masses in different churches and were called “Charismatic Mass”. One time after communion there were so call “prophecies”, “words of knowledge”, “tongues and interpretations” etc., just at the point that John suggest this could be done. The problem was that it got carried away. People started babbling and then another would get up and interpret that “tongue” as word coming from the Virgin Mary.

During those days there was a planned protest before a Planned Parenthood “killing” site. Some “tongues” were interpreted something like “go out and stand before these sites to protest.” Others were the same. Then one young girl got up and claimed a word from the “Virgin Mary” and it was completely contradictory to what was supposedly suggested just a few minutes earlier by our mother and said not go there at all because we must not start confrontations, or something like that; just pray, pray, pray.

This sort of thing is what started turning me against some of the prayer meetings where the interpreter of tongues seemed to be “interpreting” his/her own opinion. Sometimes there were contradictory interpretations and others that made no sense at all. At times two or three would get up to interpret that “utterance” and they would all be completely different. Or they would be interpreting at the same time. The thing is that this would go on with several people getting up which, to point out on 1 Cor 14, only two or three at the most should do the interpreting. But no; everybody with that gift wanted to do the interpreting.

Imagine in a church where the attendance is over one thousand, and people all over the place are getting up to give us prophecies, words of knowledge, etc. It would be simply chaotic. Oh, and of course 1 Cor 14 also says “…God is not a God of disorder but of peace.”

And you are correct; they were TOO Pentecostal with “dancing in the spirit” right after communion, people being “slain in the spirit” all over the place. Sorry but that was not for me any longer.

Question Answered by

Dear Karl:

Thanks for sharing your experience.

People need to understand that tongues is the easiest "gift" to counterfeit. Satanists, shamans, occultist, and many others speak in tongues. Speaking in tongues is also an oifficial symptom of possession mentioned in the Rite of Exorcism.

In the article, Charism Gift Building Up the Church, is found these two stories in footnote 69:

There are two accounts from priests that illustrate the need for discernment and testing. The first is an experience of Father Anthony, a Carmelite priest who attended a charismatic meeting. At the meeting, one or two people stood up and spoke in "tongues" while another interpreted. Father Anthony then stood up and spoke in tongues. The "interpreter" interpreted Father Anthony’s tongues. At this point father Anthony knew that the interpreter had a false gift. He stood up and informed her that her gift was false, that her interpretation was in error. In fact, Father Anthony has recited the Lord’s Prayer in the Polish language.

The experience of another priest is chilling. The Father was at a charismatic meeting where a woman was praising God in Tongues. After the meeting, the Father approached the woman. He asked her if she knew what she was saying when she was speaking in tongues. She replied that she was praising Jesus. The Father informed her that she happened to be speaking his native language and that she was not praising God, but was cursing God. These two true stories should give anyone who speaks in tongues great pause no matter how wonderful they think their tongues speaking has been for them. We can never underestimate the power of selfdelusion, nor the power of the evil one to fool us.

If the Charismatic Renewal is to benefit the Church, which it has the potential to do, the Renewal must rid itself of these Pentecostalisms and their errant views that Tongues is a gateway to the other gifts and is otherwise important, and also the mediumistic behavior of other gifts.

The Church has instruted the Renewal to not teach that tongues are required. Our current Pope has warned the Renewal about Sensualism. The Renewal parots those teachings in obedience when they write or speak, but in practice, it is another matter. This is a case of paying lip-service to Church authorities, while actually violating the spirit of the instruction through subtely and by the modeling of behavior that flavors Pentecostalism.

God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary

Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below:
Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum.
Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum
Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum
Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum
Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum