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Question Title	Posted By	Question Date
Re valid Baptism	Joseph	Wednesday, April 6, 2011
Question: Brother, It's been a while since I read the Catechism. I could have sworn only a validly Baptized person can perform a Baptism. In the last statement I understand that person doesn't need to have faith as the Sacrament functions on it's own power and authority. But in order to administer a sacrament I thought the person had to at least be part of the Church? How can someone outside the mystical body administer something that belongs to it? As it is even within the mystical body we acknowledge only certain sacraments can be administered by a priest for instance. And while I am on his topic for those married outside the church and become Catholic. Our church doesn't recognize this often or always. But I remember Father Corapi teaching once that Protestants have 2 valid sacraments baptism and marriage. Also people were married thru out time before the Catholic church. Oh wait maybe a sacrament can be administered outside the church then :). Well I just confused myself more please clarify. I guess inwas wondering also why he church doesnt typically or always recognise a marriage but would recognize a baptism outside the church. Thank you.
Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OMSM(r) Dear Joseph: Not all Sacraments require a priest or deacon to effect the Sacrament. The ordinary minister of baptism is a priest or deacon, but baptism can be performed by anyone in times of emergency. The ordinary minister of marriage is the couple. The priest or deacon is the ordinary officiate before which the vows are given and received by the couple. The Church recognizes as Sacramental only those marriages between two baptized persons. Thus, validly baptized non-Catholics still have Sacramental marriages even if they do not know it. A Catholic, however, must be married before Catholic clergy, in a parish Church (unless given permission otherwise), or the marriage will be invalid. This is true even if both parties are baptized. Baptism is considered valid even if not performed in the the Catholic Church if the person to be baptized is immersed in water, or has water poured over him to where the water touches the skin, and the Trinitarian formula is said. Mormon baptisms are not valid even though they use the Trinitarian formula because their doctrine on the Trinity is false. They believe, for example, that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. They say the words, but they do not actually believe in the Trinity as we know it. The ordinary minister of baptism is the bishop, priest, or deacon. Anyone, however, can baptize (CIC 861.2), even an atheist, when the person is in danger of death. This is possible because the person is doing it as the Church intends. The faith of the Church steps in when the faith of the minister is lacking. Actually, this is true even with a priest. The lack of faith or sanctity of the priest does not invalidate the Sacraments. Thus, even if the atheist does not believe in God but administers baptism as the Church intends, the baptism is valid. This is important in that there can be times when no one else is available to baptize a dying person. Baptism, or at least the desire for it, is necessary for salvation (CIC 849). Would God allow a person who wants baptism to die without it for lack of a priest or deacon, when a laymen, or even a non-Christian, is willing to administer the baptism as the Church intends? No. The commentary on Canon Law (CIC 845) from the Faculty of Canon Law at the University of Navarre in Spain, states: It is important to remember that the minister's lack of faith or sanctity does not affect the validity of baptism, according to the doctrine already established by the Church ... this doctrine was developed by St. Augustine. Regarding the intention required in the person conferring baptism... the general intention of doing what the Church does is sufficient, even though the minister might be mistaken in his faith with regard to baptism. Pope Innocent IV said, "if a Saracen [Muslim] is baptizing with the intention of doing what everybody else does in baptizing" the baptism is valid. God Bless, Bro. Ignatius Mary Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below: Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum. Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum

Question Title

Posted By

Question Date

Re valid Baptism

Joseph

Wednesday, April 6, 2011

Question:

Brother,

It's been a while since I read the Catechism. I could have sworn only a validly Baptized person can perform a Baptism. In the last statement I understand that person doesn't need to have faith as the Sacrament functions on it's own power and authority. But in order to administer a sacrament I thought the person had to at least be part of the Church?

How can someone outside the mystical body administer something that belongs to it?

As it is even within the mystical body we acknowledge only certain sacraments can be administered by a priest for instance.

And while I am on his topic for those married outside the church and become Catholic. Our church doesn't recognize this often or always. But I remember Father Corapi teaching once that Protestants have 2 valid sacraments baptism and marriage. Also people were married thru out time before the Catholic church. Oh wait maybe a sacrament can be administered outside the church then :). Well I just confused myself more please clarify. I guess inwas wondering also why he church doesnt typically or always recognise a marriage but would recognize a baptism outside the church. Thank you.

Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OMSM(r)

Dear Joseph:

Not all Sacraments require a priest or deacon to effect the Sacrament. The ordinary minister of baptism is a priest or deacon, but baptism can be performed by anyone in times of emergency. The ordinary minister of marriage is the couple. The priest or deacon is the ordinary officiate before which the vows are given and received by the couple.

The Church recognizes as Sacramental only those marriages between two baptized persons. Thus, validly baptized non-Catholics still have Sacramental marriages even if they do not know it.

A Catholic, however, must be married before Catholic clergy, in a parish Church (unless given permission otherwise), or the marriage will be invalid. This is true even if both parties are baptized.

Baptism is considered valid even if not performed in the the Catholic Church if the person to be baptized is immersed in water, or has water poured over him to where the water touches the skin, and the Trinitarian formula is said.

Mormon baptisms are not valid even though they use the Trinitarian formula because their doctrine on the Trinity is false. They believe, for example, that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. They say the words, but they do not actually believe in the Trinity as we know it.

The ordinary minister of baptism is the bishop, priest, or deacon. Anyone, however, can baptize (CIC 861.2), even an atheist, when the person is in danger of death. This is possible because the person is doing it as the Church intends. The faith of the Church steps in when the faith of the minister is lacking. Actually, this is true even with a priest. The lack of faith or sanctity of the priest does not invalidate the Sacraments.

Thus, even if the atheist does not believe in God but administers baptism as the Church intends, the baptism is valid. This is important in that there can be times when no one else is available to baptize a dying person. Baptism, or at least the desire for it, is necessary for salvation (CIC 849). Would God allow a person who wants baptism to die without it for lack of a priest or deacon, when a laymen, or even a non-Christian, is willing to administer the baptism as the Church intends? No.

The commentary on Canon Law (CIC 845) from the Faculty of Canon Law at the University of Navarre in Spain, states:

It is important to remember that the minister's lack of faith or sanctity does not affect the validity of baptism, according to the doctrine already established by the Church ... this doctrine was developed by St. Augustine. Regarding the intention required in the person conferring baptism... the general intention of doing what the Church does is sufficient, even though the minister might be mistaken in his faith with regard to baptism.

Pope Innocent IV said, "if a Saracen [Muslim] is baptizing with the intention of doing what everybody else does in baptizing" the baptism is valid.

God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary

Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below:
Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum.
Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum
Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum
Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum
Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum