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Question Title	Posted By	Question Date
Salvation & Catholicism	Len	Thursday, September 16, 2004
Question: I don't want to get too linear in my thinking, but then salvation is kind of either/or. In your response, you listed this quote: "Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it." That seems rather clear that anyone not participating in the Catholic (Roman? or Universal?) Church cannot be saved. However, as I continued to read, it appeared that statement was full of exceptions (if not contridictions). Well, probably not really contridictions, just apparently (to me) so. Obviously, the Lutheran Church - and I suppose all Protestantism was FOUNDED on a breach from the Roman Catholic Church. I guess it appears to me hard to understand how Lutherans can be saved based on the quote above. I would appreciate it if you could expound on that. Thank you. Len
Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM+ Dear Len: I am at a loss to know what to expand upon. The last post included the official Church teaching and did so clearly I thought. Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." Let me reword this perhaps as it would apply to Protestants: While salvation is only in the Catholic Church, those who are not formally Catholics may still find salvation if, through no fault of their own, they do not know they are to be Catholic. Thus, if a Protestant has not been genuinely convinced of the need to be Catholic, this is called invincible ignorance. While in secular law ignorance is no excuse of the law, in God's law justice requires that a person KNOW what he has done in order to be culpable for it. Otherwise the people in the jungle of the Amazon who may have never heard of Jesus would go to hell. Such a thing would be cruel and we do not have a cruel God. There must be a conscious and deliberate decision made in freedom and knowledge to reject God or to reject His Catholic Church in order to be held accountable. Thus God judges those people who do not know in the way that only God can judge, but when He chooses to save them He STILL does it THROUGH the Bride of Christ. It is the Bride of Christ that all the saved are birthed into eternal life. In terms of the non-Christians, we do not know exactly how God accomplished this, but we know that He does. In terms of non-Catholic Christians, we do know how this is accomplished. Protestants are already in a imperfect union with the Catholic Church by virtue of their valid baptism. Thus by baptism, which is Catholic whether they know it or not, the Lutheran's salvation is THROUGH the Catholic Church because it comes THROUGH the Catholic Baptism and THROUGH the Catholic Faith. (those elements of Lutheran Faith that are salvific in nature are actually Catholic teachings that the Lutherans took with them when they split from the Church). Thus through the ONE Baptism (which is Catholic) and the Christian Faith (which comes from the Catholic Church), non-Catholic Christians find salvation as long as they are invincibly ignorant of the requirement of God to be formally Catholic. I hope this helps clear things up a little. God Bless, Bro. Ignatius Mary Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below: Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum. Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum

Question Title

Posted By

Question Date

Salvation & Catholicism

Len

Thursday, September 16, 2004

Question:

I don't want to get too linear in my thinking, but then salvation is kind of either/or.

In your response, you listed this quote: "Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it."

That seems rather clear that anyone not participating in the Catholic (Roman? or Universal?) Church cannot be saved. However, as I continued to read, it appeared that statement was full of exceptions (if not contridictions). Well, probably not really contridictions, just apparently (to me) so.

Obviously, the Lutheran Church - and I suppose all Protestantism was FOUNDED on a breach from the Roman Catholic Church. I guess it appears to me hard to understand how Lutherans can be saved based on the quote above. I would appreciate it if you could expound on that. Thank you.

Len

Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM+

Dear Len:

I am at a loss to know what to expand upon. The last post included the official Church teaching and did so clearly I thought.

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."

Let me reword this perhaps as it would apply to Protestants:

While salvation is only in the Catholic Church, those who are not formally Catholics may still find salvation if, through no fault of their own, they do not know they are to be Catholic. Thus, if a Protestant has not been genuinely convinced of the need to be Catholic, this is called invincible ignorance.

While in secular law ignorance is no excuse of the law, in God's law justice requires that a person KNOW what he has done in order to be culpable for it. Otherwise the people in the jungle of the Amazon who may have never heard of Jesus would go to hell. Such a thing would be cruel and we do not have a cruel God. There must be a conscious and deliberate decision made in freedom and knowledge to reject God or to reject His Catholic Church in order to be held accountable.

Thus God judges those people who do not know in the way that only God can judge, but when He chooses to save them He STILL does it THROUGH the Bride of Christ. It is the Bride of Christ that all the saved are birthed into eternal life. In terms of the non-Christians, we do not know exactly how God accomplished this, but we know that He does.

In terms of non-Catholic Christians, we do know how this is accomplished. Protestants are already in a imperfect union with the Catholic Church by virtue of their valid baptism. Thus by baptism, which is Catholic whether they know it or not, the Lutheran's salvation is THROUGH the Catholic Church because it comes THROUGH the Catholic Baptism and THROUGH the Catholic Faith. (those elements of Lutheran Faith that are salvific in nature are actually Catholic teachings that the Lutherans took with them when they split from the Church).

Thus through the ONE Baptism (which is Catholic) and the Christian Faith (which comes from the Catholic Church), non-Catholic Christians find salvation as long as they are invincibly ignorant of the requirement of God to be formally Catholic.

I hope this helps clear things up a little.

God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary

Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below:
Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum.
Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum
Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum
Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum
Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum