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Question Title	Posted By	Question Date
Death penalty due to sin	PJ	Tuesday, March 9, 2010
Question: "Here we have the shedding of blood that is the visible manifestation of invisible spiritual reality that sin brings death and that someone must pay that penalty for us so we do not have to suffer that penalty." Thank you for this comment of yours; but it raises two questions: 1. But we DO pay the penalty of death eventually due to original sin. We were meant for immortality yet everyone dies. Do you mean more specifically that we deserve the death penalty IMMEDIATELY because of the spirtual death that incurs due to mortal sin, like what often occurred in the OT, rather than the death penalty occurring further along at the end of our lives due to original sin? 2. And this is a question I sent earlier that never got answered, but is very appropriate here: Hypothetically, if Christ died for us on the cross but no blood was shed from His body, would we be redeemed? And likewise if His blood did shed for us on the cross but Christ survived the ordeal, would we be redeemed? In other words, what was the exact cause of our redemption - was it Christ's shed blood or was it Christ's death? Thank you.
Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM Dear P.J.: On Question 1: One of the consequences of Original Sin is physical death. With only a couple of exceptions everyone who has lived so far as died or will die (except for those who are alive at the second coming who will be gathered up while they are still alive). Thus, almost all of us will suffer the consequences of the sin of our Original Parents. The sin of Adam and Eve, however, are not ours, it is theirs -- we just suffer the consequences of that sin that brought Man into a Fallen nature. The death of Jesus on the cross does three things: 1) if satisfies the Justice that is demanded by the crime of sin; 2) it pay the penalty for the crime of Original Sin and thus redeems Mankind; 3) it pays the penalty for the crime of our personal sins. As Jesus paid the penalty for us He now offers to us the benefits of His sacrifice. We accept his offer when we are Baptized, which erases original sin and any personal sins from our soul; the Sacraments of Confession and Eucharist erase any personal sins as go through life. He pays, we benefit. But, do not confuse consequences with penalty. While the debt has been paid, justice for the crime satisfied, the consequences of the crime remain. Everyone suffers from the consequences of Original Sin. The hardships, struggles, illnesses, sorrows, pains, etc., are all part of the consequences of Original Sin. We still suffer from those consequences even after Original Sin has be erased from our soul by Baptism. We also suffer the consequences of our personal sin even though the sin has been forgiven. We all, but a very few, will suffer from the consequence of Original Sin, which is physical death. On Question 2: Hypotheticals are not very useful and can be dangerous. We need to be vary careful of curious speculations over things that never happened (the "what if"). Many people lose their faith over such intellectual exercises and a compulsive need to delve into every possible speculative cranny. In trying to delve into these crannies you are misinterpreting the terms. "Shedding blood" does not mean that blood is coming out of the body. Such a definition comes from looking at the word "shed" as an adjective to "blood." But, the term "Shedding Blood" is an idiom (an expression with its own meaning). It means 'to take life", "to kill". Thus, when I prick my finger to test my blood sugar I am not "shedding blood" even though blood is coming out of me. Jesus shed his blood (was killed) for us. Thus, even if Jesus bled all over the place, if he had survived the Cross redemption and the forgiveness of sins would not have been accomplished as the penalty for the crime of sin (death) would not have been exacted. The exact cause of our redemption is the death (shedding blood) of Jesus on the Cross, and His Resurrection. God Bless, Bro. Ignatius Mary Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below: Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum. Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum

Question Title

Posted By

Question Date

Death penalty due to sin

Tuesday, March 9, 2010

Question:

"Here we have the shedding of blood that is the visible manifestation of invisible spiritual reality that sin brings death and that someone must pay that penalty for us so we do not have to suffer that penalty."

Thank you for this comment of yours; but it raises two questions:

1. But we DO pay the penalty of death eventually due to original sin. We were meant for immortality yet everyone dies. Do you mean more specifically that we deserve the death penalty IMMEDIATELY because of the spirtual death that incurs due to mortal sin, like what often occurred in the OT, rather than the death penalty occurring further along at the end of our lives due to original sin?

2. And this is a question I sent earlier that never got answered, but is very appropriate here:

Hypothetically, if Christ died for us on the cross but no blood was shed from His body, would we be redeemed? And likewise if His blood did shed for us on the cross but Christ survived the ordeal, would we be redeemed?

In other words, what was the exact cause of our redemption - was it Christ's shed blood or was it Christ's death?

Thank you.

Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM

Dear P.J.:

On Question 1: One of the consequences of Original Sin is physical death. With only a couple of exceptions everyone who has lived so far as died or will die (except for those who are alive at the second coming who will be gathered up while they are still alive).

Thus, almost all of us will suffer the consequences of the sin of our Original Parents. The sin of Adam and Eve, however, are not ours, it is theirs -- we just suffer the consequences of that sin that brought Man into a Fallen nature.

The death of Jesus on the cross does three things: 1) if satisfies the Justice that is demanded by the crime of sin; 2) it pay the penalty for the crime of Original Sin and thus redeems Mankind; 3) it pays the penalty for the crime of our personal sins. As Jesus paid the penalty for us He now offers to us the benefits of His sacrifice. We accept his offer when we are Baptized, which erases original sin and any personal sins from our soul; the Sacraments of Confession and Eucharist erase any personal sins as go through life. He pays, we benefit.

But, do not confuse consequences with penalty. While the debt has been paid, justice for the crime satisfied, the consequences of the crime remain.

Everyone suffers from the consequences of Original Sin. The hardships, struggles, illnesses, sorrows, pains, etc., are all part of the consequences of Original Sin. We still suffer from those consequences even after Original Sin has be erased from our soul by Baptism. We also suffer the consequences of our personal sin even though the sin has been forgiven. We all, but a very few, will suffer from the consequence of Original Sin, which is physical death.

On Question 2: Hypotheticals are not very useful and can be dangerous. We need to be vary careful of curious speculations over things that never happened (the "what if"). Many people lose their faith over such intellectual exercises and a compulsive need to delve into every possible speculative cranny.

In trying to delve into these crannies you are misinterpreting the terms. "Shedding blood" does not mean that blood is coming out of the body. Such a definition comes from looking at the word "shed" as an adjective to "blood." But, the term "Shedding Blood" is an idiom (an expression with its own meaning). It means 'to take life", "to kill". Thus, when I prick my finger to test my blood sugar I am not "shedding blood" even though blood is coming out of me. Jesus shed his blood (was killed) for us.

Thus, even if Jesus bled all over the place, if he had survived the Cross redemption and the forgiveness of sins would not have been accomplished as the penalty for the crime of sin (death) would not have been exacted. The exact cause of our redemption is the death (shedding blood) of Jesus on the Cross, and His Resurrection.

God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary

Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below:
Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum.
Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum
Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum
Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum
Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum