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Question Title	Posted By	Question Date
Priest said early Church community "put many words into Jesus' mouth"	Stephen	Friday, September 26, 2008
Question: Brother, Today at Mass, the Priest during his sermon was elaborating a little bit and then had made a remark stating, "Jesus probably didn't actually say this, the early Church community most likely put these words into His mouth." He said we are a Church based on Faith, not Historical details. I was troubled by this. This is a Priest that i actually have alot of respect for and always love his sermons. He is an older Priest probably in his 60's and knows his stuff. But this troubled me. I approached him after Mass about him and asked him to explain it a little more. He said that "Scripture Scholars" say that the early community sort of attributed various things to Jesus, i.e. words He said, whether He had infused knowledge of what was to happen to Him, etc. I told him if we say these sorts of things, what's to stop someone from saying that He never existed or said any of this stuff at all? A non-believer could easily say that if we don't think He said certain things, how can we be sure of any of it? He said that non-believers say things like that because that's what they want to believe. He reiterated to me though, that he isn't trying to "debunk" any of the Gospels or anything, but stating that we aren't confined to these "literal" historical things. Please elaborate Brother. Thanks
Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM Dear Stephen: Sorry to take so long to answer. I am a little behind the eight ball. It sounds like your paster has been listening to the idiots of the Jesus Seminar who went through the Bible to mark various verses to decide whether Jesus actually said to did what was recorded. The members of the Jesus Seminar used a "bead system" to vote on the authenticity of about 500 statements and events. The color of the bead represented how sure the member was that a saying or act was or was not authentic. Red beads – indicated the voter believed Jesus did say the passage quoted, or something very much like the passage. (3 Points) Pink beads – indicated the voter believed Jesus probably said something like the passage. (2 Points) Grey beads – indicated the voter believed Jesus did not say the passage, but it contains Jesus' ideas. (1 Point) Black beads – indicated the voter believed Jesus did not say the passage—it comes from later admirers or a different tradition. (0 Points) However, I have another bead that trumps all their beads. It is the White Bead of the Church in the Pope and Magisterium. This bead was used by Jesus and given to St. Peter and his successors. It is a shame if your paster has been hood winked by this historical reconstructionists group. The idea that the apostles and Church fathers conspired to put words into Jesus' mouth or to lie about events in Jesus' life is just plain stupid. It is not necessary to do such a thing. And it is utterly inconsistent with the teaching of Jesus who taught that the "truth will make you free." Personally, I think that to assert that the Bible contains statements that are lies about Jesus, that apostles lied about what Jesus said is a form of blasphemy as it attributes to saints and to the Sacred Scripture an evil lying about Jesus is an evil). God Bless, Bro. Ignatius Mary Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below: Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum. Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum

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Priest said early Church community "put many words into Jesus' mouth"

Stephen

Friday, September 26, 2008

Question:

Brother,

Today at Mass, the Priest during his sermon was elaborating a little bit and then had made a remark stating, "Jesus probably didn't actually say this, the early Church community most likely put these words into His mouth."

He said we are a Church based on Faith, not Historical details.
I was troubled by this. This is a Priest that i actually have alot of respect for and always love his sermons. He is an older Priest probably in his 60's and knows his stuff. But this troubled me.

I approached him after Mass about him and asked him to explain it a little more. He said that "Scripture Scholars" say that the early community sort of attributed various things to Jesus, i.e. words He said, whether He had infused knowledge of what was to happen to Him, etc.

I told him if we say these sorts of things, what's to stop someone from saying that He never existed or said any of this stuff at all? A non-believer could easily say that if we don't think He said certain things, how can we be sure of any of it? He said that non-believers say things like that because that's what they want to believe. He reiterated to me though, that he isn't trying to "debunk" any of the Gospels or anything, but stating that we aren't confined to these "literal" historical things.

Please elaborate Brother. Thanks

Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM

Dear Stephen:

Sorry to take so long to answer. I am a little behind the eight ball.

It sounds like your paster has been listening to the idiots of the Jesus Seminar who went through the Bible to mark various verses to decide whether Jesus actually said to did what was recorded.

The members of the Jesus Seminar used a "bead system" to vote on the authenticity of about 500 statements and events. The color of the bead represented how sure the member was that a saying or act was or was not authentic.

Red beads – indicated the voter believed Jesus did say the passage quoted, or something very much like the passage. (3 Points)
Pink beads – indicated the voter believed Jesus probably said something like the passage. (2 Points)
Grey beads – indicated the voter believed Jesus did not say the passage, but it contains Jesus' ideas. (1 Point)
Black beads – indicated the voter believed Jesus did not say the passage—it comes from later admirers or a different tradition. (0 Points)

However, I have another bead that trumps all their beads. It is the White Bead of the Church in the Pope and Magisterium. This bead was used by Jesus and given to St. Peter and his successors.

It is a shame if your paster has been hood winked by this historical reconstructionists group.

The idea that the apostles and Church fathers conspired to put words into Jesus' mouth or to lie about events in Jesus' life is just plain stupid. It is not necessary to do such a thing. And it is utterly inconsistent with the teaching of Jesus who taught that the "truth will make you free."

Personally, I think that to assert that the Bible contains statements that are lies about Jesus, that apostles lied about what Jesus said is a form of blasphemy as it attributes to saints and to the Sacred Scripture an evil lying about Jesus is an evil).

God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary

Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below:
Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum.
Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum
Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum
Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum
Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum