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Question Title	Posted By	Question Date
New vs Old Catechism	Scott	Monday, June 30, 2008
Question: Hi brother, In the New Catechism, it states: 847: This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. I was speaking to a Pre Vatican II traditionalist who says that outside the Catholic Church, there is absolutely no salvation. He says that new Catechism that we use today contradicts the the old Trent Catechism. He says that even Protestants who live good lives and are not Catholic are not saved because they do not resopnd to the grace to be Catholic. I have talked to and tried to educate and evangelize Protestants. This is next to impossible in most cases. They think that they are doing right. I truly believe that their ignorance is not their fault, because they are fed so many lies about the Catholic Church right from a young age. Many of them are Sunday worshipers and are just trying to be faithful to Jesus by what their minister tells them. If they are lied to about the Catholic Church from a young age, how can they stand a chance to ever know the truth? Why is our Church so divided on so many matters, this just being one example? Also, does he have a point here from his traditionalist standpoint, or are we to accept what is written in the new Catechism? Thanks.
Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM Dear Scott: You need to avoid listening to these ultra-traditionalists. They are not in communion with the Church. In this case the person you talked to is a heretic. Long before Vatican II, in the 1940's a Father Feeney said the same thing, that one must be a "card-carrying" Catholic or they go to hell. He was excommunicated for teaching this. This teaching was not a result of Vatican II or the new Catechism. This is the teaching of the Church long before Vatican II ever existed. We are to accept all that is in the new Catechism. This is the official teaching of the Catholic Church. Anyone who says otherwise as separated himself from communion with the Church. The Church is not divided on these issues. The Church teaches what it teaches. There are some people, however, that have arrogantly decided they know more than the Holy See and have taken it upon themselves to form their own brand of orthodoxy. That is the very definition of separating from the Church, according to the Church. The reason for these separatist groups is ego, pride, and I think often personality disorders and sometimes even mental illness. For example, some of those people even think that there has been no valid Pope since 1958. That is just plain nuts. Do not listen to the divisiveness of men. Listen to the Holy See. The new Catechism, which does not contradict one single dotted-i of the previous Catechism, is the summary of our faith. Anyone opposing it, opposes the Church, and opposes Christ. God Bless, Bro. Ignatius Mary Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below: Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum. Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum

Question Title

Posted By

Question Date

New vs Old Catechism

Scott

Monday, June 30, 2008

Question:

Hi brother,

In the New Catechism, it states:

847: This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

I was speaking to a Pre Vatican II traditionalist who says that outside the Catholic Church, there is absolutely no salvation. He says that new Catechism that we use today contradicts the the old Trent Catechism.

He says that even Protestants who live good lives and are not Catholic are not saved because they do not resopnd to the grace to be Catholic.

I have talked to and tried to educate and evangelize Protestants. This is next to impossible in most cases. They think that they are doing right. I truly believe that their ignorance is not their fault, because they are fed so many lies about the Catholic Church right from a young age. Many of them are Sunday worshipers and are just trying to be faithful to Jesus by what their minister tells them.
If they are lied to about the Catholic Church from a young age, how can they stand a chance to ever know the truth?

Why is our Church so divided on so many matters, this just being one example?

Also, does he have a point here from his traditionalist standpoint, or are we to accept what is written in the new Catechism?

Thanks.

Question Answered by Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM

Dear Scott:

You need to avoid listening to these ultra-traditionalists. They are not in communion with the Church. In this case the person you talked to is a heretic.

Long before Vatican II, in the 1940's a Father Feeney said the same thing, that one must be a "card-carrying" Catholic or they go to hell. He was excommunicated for teaching this.

This teaching was not a result of Vatican II or the new Catechism. This is the teaching of the Church long before Vatican II ever existed.

We are to accept all that is in the new Catechism. This is the official teaching of the Catholic Church. Anyone who says otherwise as separated himself from communion with the Church.

The Church is not divided on these issues. The Church teaches what it teaches. There are some people, however, that have arrogantly decided they know more than the Holy See and have taken it upon themselves to form their own brand of orthodoxy. That is the very definition of separating from the Church, according to the Church.

The reason for these separatist groups is ego, pride, and I think often personality disorders and sometimes even mental illness. For example, some of those people even think that there has been no valid Pope since 1958. That is just plain nuts.

Do not listen to the divisiveness of men. Listen to the Holy See. The new Catechism, which does not contradict one single dotted-i of the previous Catechism, is the summary of our faith. Anyone opposing it, opposes the Church, and opposes Christ.

God Bless,
Bro. Ignatius Mary

Footer Notes: This forum is for general questions on the faith. See specific Topic Forums below:
Spiritual Warfare, demons, the occult go to our Spiritul Warfare Q&S Forum.
Liturgy Questions go to our Liturgy and Liturgical Law Q&A Forum
Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) Questions go to our Divine Office Q&A Forum
Defenfing the Faith Questions go to our Defending the Faith Q&A Forum
Church History Questions go to our Church History Q&A Forum